After making my other post (on page 2 of the "lesbianism" thread) I got to thinking about what the world would be like without sin.
Some points I made were that there was
-no bad weather, no rain even
-no clothes (BUT they weren't needed, because we weren't supposed to have lustfull thoughts)
-no killing animals, because we did not need them for warmth or covering, and we did not eat any meat either (we ate from the garden and trees)
-no sickness, no death, everyone lives forever on earth
-no infertility, and no death, so there'd be lots and lots of people (obviously that would have worked out fine since it's God who thought of it, but you have to wonder how it would have worked, with the planet getting full and all?)
-no sin, so everyone lives in harmony and follows God's plans, so no wars, no criminals, etc.
-I'm not quite sure about this one, but doesn't the Bible say that God walked among them or something? So like God could have been on Erath, or maybe we atleast could have looked directly at him, instead of now where we can't see him?
-and snakes had legs. lol. i'm sort of kidding. I don't know what to think about that part of the Bible.
Can anyone think of other ways the Earth (and our lives)would have been different??????
Just thought it was an interesting thought....
Along the lines of how would all that multiplying work... I'm wondering how the no rain thing would work. Would God just keep creating fresh water to flow from the earth, but it wouldn't overflow the oceans? I guess it would really be the same problem as overpopulation.
Well my old Bible teacher said that dew rose up from the ground and that was where water came from...I assume it would eventually evaporate?...I haven't checked to see if its in the Bible or not but I guess it probably is, since that's where the Bible teacher was supposed to get his information lol.
I hope nobody thinks I am challenging God's plans or anything...I mean, I totally believe that this would have all worked out, because it was God's plan and it would have been perfect...I just wonder how, that's all. But even though I don't know HOW, I still believe in it.
You know what? I always thought that when God saw that Adam and Eve didn't listen to him, He must've been really mad, but I never thought of it from the view that part of why He was probably mad wasn't just because they didn't listen to Him- he was probably mad too that He'd made this whole universe and planet and everything on it, and then Adam and Eve made evryhting have to change. Like God had to change everyhting because the world couldn't be how He made it anymore. It couldn't be perfect once they'd let sin in, so He had to change it now. I would be mad if I'd spent time and work creating something and then somebody messed it up and I had to change the whole thing.
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<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 21, 2006 03:24 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]</font>
Interesting topic.
While the idea of a world without pain and loss is certainly an appealing one, I'm going to (excuse the pun) play devil's advocate, and say I'm not so sure that Eden would truly be a paradise.
If there is a "God," I think much of the genius of his/her creation lies in the creation of death, change, erosion, evolution, seasons, cycles of decomposition and regeneration. I'd prefer that s/he'd refrained from creating quite such abject horror when it comes to all the ways a mortal body can fall to pieces--but as a concept and operating system, death's actually not bad. And I am not at all sure I would want to live forever, anyway. (Ever read the Greek myth about Tithonus? It's pretty grim.)
Living in this "perfect" world also sounds like a really boring existence. We would pretty much have to say good-bye to all entertainment like books and movies, since you can't really have an interesting storyline without some sort of problem or conflict (and here I'm assuming that dramatizing "sin" would constitute a "sin" in itself, so it wouldn't be allowed.) We would no longer have any interesting conversations or debates, since we'd all have agreed on "God's way." People would no longer hold deep and diverse opinions and beliefs--there would only be unarguable facts. There would be no new ideas or discoveries to get excited about. There would be no incentive or drive for anyone to accomplish anything--hard work would lose all value. Since we'd have forever to live, there would be no reason to strive to make our lives matter, make our lives count. We would no longer have heroes, people who achieved things far beyond the normal human scope and made the world a better place. And of course, there's the big philosophical question: could we really understand and experience joy if we had no pain to compare it to?
Well, voice-of-reason, that's why God gave us free will. He wants us to be His friend but what's the point of forcing us? Of course He's sad when we don't want to, but He gave us that choice.
BUT...I have to disagree. I don't think the world would be "boring" I think it would be perfect. I mean, I like movies and books and all that too, but I'd rather have everybody know God and love Him. I'd much rather live in God's perfect world, only because of sin we can't.
Along the lines of your statement, do you not want to go to Heaven because it would be boring? By the way, just to clarify things, I'm NOT asking whether you BELIEVE in Heaven or **** (that's a whole nother topic)...but for the sake of argument let's just say they do exist, and the question I'm aksing is would you rather go to **** or Heaven, because even though perfect, Heaven might not be "interesting"? Just a question out of curiosity.
whoopsie, I wasn't thinking of H-E-double hockeysticks as being a bad word. LOL I just meant the place, like, as opposed to Heaven...not anything like swearing. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Interesting topic. Many many questions...
I think Revelations 21 and 22 say what the world will be like when it is without sin. This is, of course, after this world, a sinful one, has passed away.
I assume your question is more "What would the world be like if sin had never been involved at all?" This leads to "Would this be a good thing?"
Genesis tells what the world was like before sin... we all assume that the world would be the same as it was... thus...
1. there would be no pain during childbirth
2. animals would get along (no predator/prey)
3. snakes WOULD have legs
4. we would be ignorant as to good/evil (for we would not have eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil)
5. There would be no clothes. "The man and whis wife were both naked, and the felt no shame." Genesis 2:25
6. God would talk directly to people.
7. There would be no emnity between people and snakes.
8. We would not have to toil for our food.
I am no expert on God's will (boy is that the truth!), so I really don't know. I'm not sure that a sinless world (one without Adam and Eve's original sin) would be a good thing or a bad thing. I'm not even sure a sinless world would be possible since we have free will...if not the sin of eating from the tree of knowledge, would there have been another sin?
I do know that we will return to a perfect, sinless world, and that will definately be a good thing. God is omniscient. His plans and His will are perfect and exactly what is best and what we need. Thus, since He is graciously giving us this sinless world (which has not come yet), it is going to be good... perfect... and we will get to drink form the river of life and eat from the tree of life... thus I must wonder... was this His plan all along?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good question. I think Heaven would be horribly boring; yes, and I'd certainly have no desire to spend eternity there.Originally posted by StarTrekCaptain:
Along the lines of your statement, do you not want to go to Heaven because it would be boring? By the way, just to clarify things, I'm NOT asking whether you BELIEVE in Heaven or **** (that's a whole nother topic)...but for the sake of argument let's just say they do exist, and the question I'm aksing is would you rather go to **** or Heaven, because even though perfect, Heaven might not be "interesting"? Just a question out of curiosity.
Besides, if fundamentalist Christianity is true, nearly every person I love and respect would also be going to H_ell (or they've already gone there).
But even I were "saved" and could gain admittance to Heaven, I don't think I'd be able to enjoy the eternal bliss knowing that meanwhile, all the world's virtuous Sikhs, Buddhists, nonbelievers, Muslims, Jews, etc.--good people overall, just not followers of the "right" faith--were frying away down in H_ell. Could you?
voice-of-reason, that's why we as Christians are supposed to try an reach non-believers...we know that God wants them too and so we try to bring them to God to save them from that fate...oh, but also, if its a child who dies and they're another religion, they'll go to heaven anyway because they're still under the age of innocence where God takes them anyway because they're little...that's what Protestants believe. I'm not sure about Catholics, but I assume that since they believe in infant baptism, then they do not believe in an age of innocence.
I know Christians are supposed to proselytize and evangelize and add to the flock?my question is, wouldn't you have any compassion for those people who are good and kind, but don't accept Christianity and therefore end up d_amned anyway?
If not, can you see how harsh, arrogant, selfish and smug that might seem to a nonChristian?
And furthermore, can you see how that might make a nonChristian not exactly eager to become one of you?
Part of my point, too, is that I think it would be a great tragedy to lose all the many, rich, beautiful religions and philosophies of our current world if we were to live in a "sin"-free Eden. Wouldn't you feel badly at all for all the nonChristians who'd have to lose their own deeply held beliefs and heritages to become one of God's submissive zombies? I find it totally repugnant to think that, if there's a God, s/he'd want his/her complex & wonderful creation, humankind, cheapened into a bunch of obsequious, "perfect," identical beings.
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